Posts by the pharmer

5

Complete quote?

by the pharmer in

i found a quote at this site: http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=498&highlight=&sid=815e0686c02215e3bccb4ac31f5971bd&mforum=jw.

can someone give me the missing parts so i can see what the original author said in its complete form?

if you look at that site, you can see that the quote given says:.

the pharmer

I know I can get a bit wordy, but I wonder if anyone has any additional thoughts/comments on my find. Maybe it's old news.

5

Complete quote?

by the pharmer in

i found a quote at this site: http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=498&highlight=&sid=815e0686c02215e3bccb4ac31f5971bd&mforum=jw.

can someone give me the missing parts so i can see what the original author said in its complete form?

if you look at that site, you can see that the quote given says:.

the pharmer

My underlining was just to show the points I thought were especially significant.

5

Complete quote?

by the pharmer in

i found a quote at this site: http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=498&highlight=&sid=815e0686c02215e3bccb4ac31f5971bd&mforum=jw.

can someone give me the missing parts so i can see what the original author said in its complete form?

if you look at that site, you can see that the quote given says:.

the pharmer

So, to get an answer, I purchased the book myself.

Even without considering the context with which the author (Paul L. Kaufman) was presenting his material (the context was presenting and discussing the various cases with verbs), it is quite telling to see what was left out of the quote.

From pg 46 of his book, the author first makes a statement followed by 5 points/examples. The quote that the WTBTS leaves incomplete is from the author’s 4 th point/example. (Note, I don’t know how to put Greek letters in this excerpt).

The first statement is, “Some verbs in Greek may take more than one case or they may take a case different from what the corresponding verbs in English would take, thus: …” and then he goes on to the 5 points.

The author’s 4 th point being:

“Pisteuo takes the dative, thus: I believe the apostle. Another construction which is common in the New Testament (especially John’s Gospel) is pisteuo with eis and the accusative case which is to be translated I believe in or I believe on , thus: I know the Lord and I am believing on Him. The whole construction of eis plus the accusative must be translated rather than attempting to translate the preposition eis as an isolated word. Faith is thought of as an activity, as something men do, i.e. putting faith intosomeone . John uses this construction thirty-six (36) times.”

The underlining and highlights are mine. I’ve highlighted the missing parts yellow. Also, notice where I highlighted in green, there is only one word that the original author italicized – into – whereas the WTBTS italicizes “putting faith into someone.” By italicizing the other words surrounding the word “into”, the WTBTS have effectively taken away the author’s object of emphasis.

Any comments?

5

Complete quote?

by the pharmer in

i found a quote at this site: http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=498&highlight=&sid=815e0686c02215e3bccb4ac31f5971bd&mforum=jw.

can someone give me the missing parts so i can see what the original author said in its complete form?

if you look at that site, you can see that the quote given says:.

the pharmer

I found a quote at this site: http://www.getphpbb.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=498&highlight=&sid=815e0686c02215e3bccb4ac31f5971bd&mforum=jw

Can someone give me the missing parts so I can see what the original author said in its complete form? If you look at that site, you can see that the quote given says:

According to Paul Kaufman, An Introductory Grammar of New Testament Greek

Faith is thought of as an activity

The TSO (TRUTH SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA) --- any body want to play?? :)

by the pharmer in

this is just meant to be for fun...the theme doesnt even have to be exclusively wt based.

my intention is to have fun with this, but to also be able to draw as many parallels as possible in the end that could apply to any group claiming exclusivity.

i invite anyone/everyone who wants to participate by adding/subtracting/changing to this dialogue to do so.

the pharmer

This is just meant to be for fun…the theme doesn’t even have to be exclusively WT based. My intention is to have fun with this, but to also be able to draw as many parallels as possible in the end that could apply to ANY group claiming exclusivity. I invite anyone/everyone who wants to participate by adding/subtracting/changing to this dialogue to do so. If it’s a total flop, or if people hate the idea, oh well…I’ll amuse myself with it on my own…no expectations, no worries. :)

If anyone is interested in adding a statement or more to the script, feel free to change what has already been written by others.

This is all probably plain silly, but oh well, I’ve never done anything like this before, and I feel like my brain needs a bit of a break.

As you can see by what follows, the householder needs to come up with some questions to ask the TSO members.

Any suggestions as to what questions to ask? :)

Setting:

A couple of members of the exclusive TRUTH SYMPHONY ORCHESTRA (TSO) are going door-to-door to talk to people about a famous piece of music.

TSO MEMBERS (TSO-M)

“We heard you practicing some music, and from what we could hear, it sounds like you are pretty musical.”

HOUSEHOLDER (HH)

“Thanks, I try, but this piece is very challenging in some areas, and I want to keep making progress on it.”

TSO-M

“We are fond of that piece too, in fact, we are official members of the TSO – Truth Symphony Orchestra – and we perform that piece all the time! We have a study book devoted to it; would you be interested in studying it with usand learning what this music is reallysupposed to sound like; what The Composer reallyintended?”

HH

“That’s interesting. Well, I consider myself to be a competent musician and a dedicated student of this particular piece. I think I have a good grasp for the most part, but by you saying you can teach me what it really is supposed to sound like implies that I don’t already have a good grasp. Although I normally welcome and enjoy hearing other’s opinions and interpretations, I know nothing of your TSO organization or the conductor(s) who lead it. Do you mind if I ask you some questions first?”

[??? To be continued by anyone/everyone???]

20

"When Was the Bible Written?" June 1, 2011 Public Edition--Oh, Wow!

by Cadellin in

i say, "oh, wow!

" because this article is a showcase for all of the ways that the writing dept.

has lost any shred of authoritative ethos or credibility.

the pharmer

marking

54

No Rapture But JW's Shown 2 B The True Idiots

by Pig in

jw
friends

loved this article in australia.

five other end-of-world predictions: .

1. followers of william miller believed the world would end on october 22, 1844.. 2.the jehovah's witness religion has predicted the end of the world in 1914, 1915, 1918, 1920, 1925, 1941, 1975 and 1994.. 3. charles wesley, founder of the methodist church, predicted the world would end in 1794.. 4. famous forecaster nostradamus predicted doomsday would happen in july 1999.. 5. english mystic joanna southcott predicted the world would end on october 19, 1814, when she gave birth to the messiah.. .

the pharmer

(marking)

19

djeggnog, YOU were a professional musician...answer THIS non-religious question.

by the pharmer in

jw
friends

don't worry, this should be an easy elementary question, especially for a former professional musician.

(those of you wondering why i ask, i wonder just how stubbornly he will hold on to his false statement -- one of many -- even though it is a relatively benign and non-religious topic.

how many intervals in a harmonic minor scale, djeggnog?

the pharmer

I know!

DT, don't get me wrong, I do appreciate what you’re saying about the elements involved in your more complex compositions, but let me make this clear. We were not discussing complex tonalities or modes; this was basic major vs. minor keys. The more he explained, the more mistakes were made…on basic things!

You said, I sometimes find it easier to try to forgot this kind of music theory so I can explore different kinds of structure and ways of thinking about music, so I'm pretty tolerant when others get the details wrong.

This wasn’t a matter of him getting some minor details wrong about some obscure and confusing music theory…these were errors in the very foundation and fundamentals of music theory.

He made a comment that, “there are no sharps in the A-minor scale”; Well, there isn’t just one A-minor scale, there are three! So that statement is incomplete and incorrect because all three “A-minor” scales need to be considered before making that kind of claim -- Melodic minor, Harmonic minor, and Natural minor. ( Natural minor is the only one of the three A-minor scales to not have any sharps; the other two do. And if you read his description of the other two minor scales, they are not correct either, indicating to me that he didn’t completely understand basic minor scale forms. )

We’re not talking advanced theory here…and given the fact that he was pointing out and debating smaller details (instead of looking at the big picture), I couldn’t let these basic errors (the very foundation of music theory) go unaddressed.

This might seem insignificant, but when he tried to use these incomplete and incorrect statements to criticize me and discredit my point, I needed to address them.

I hope I made sense.

Thanks for your input!

19

djeggnog, YOU were a professional musician...answer THIS non-religious question.

by the pharmer in

jw
friends

don't worry, this should be an easy elementary question, especially for a former professional musician.

(those of you wondering why i ask, i wonder just how stubbornly he will hold on to his false statement -- one of many -- even though it is a relatively benign and non-religious topic.

how many intervals in a harmonic minor scale, djeggnog?

the pharmer

DT, what follows pretty much sums it up.

In my initial example, my point was, we had a piece of music to interpret, and it was a given that it was in the key of “A”…BUT, there was some dispute as to which key of “A” it was…major/minor. The WT and I differed on the interpretation of certain notes (C’s) as to whether they should be played as C-natural or C-sharp.

What significance would that have? In my example, although the entire JW ensemble would sound ‘in harmony’ with each other (since they all played the C’s as ‘naturals’ – vs. sharp), they ultimately would be incorrect in their interpretation (maybe they didn’t see the key signature or read the accidentals correctly or whatever the case for the misinterpretation) – and therefore the piece sounded in a minor-key , instead of the major-key which the composer intended. I was just trying to point out how a misreading or misinterpretation of one note in a piece of music (C# vs C-natural) could ultimately change the way a piece sounds in terms of its major-minor tonality. I did not mean for it to get into a music theory lesson.

If this was music, and it was written in the key of “A”, and you insisted on singing/playing every “C” as a C-natural, it would sound like the piece is in a Minor key – i.e. A-Minor. If everyone sang/played “C” as a natural, it might sound correct – i.e. in harmony with each other – but if the composer (Jesus Christ) intended it to be in the key of A-Major (not minor), every “C” should actually be sung/played as a C-sharp instead of C-natural, thus making it a Major key.

I don’t know how, but He missed my point, so I clarified further:

Using “chords” to clarify…an “A” chord consisting of a triad (3 notes) has an A, C, and E in it. The A-major triad (chord) consists of A (natural), C# (sharp), and E (natural); whereas an A minor triad consists of A (natural), C (natural…not sharp), and an E (natural). If you know a piece of music is in the key of “A”, but you have C-naturals all over the place, it is going to sound as a Minor tonality. Play C#’s in place of all the C-naturals, and it will sound as a Major tonality.

Simplified further…find a piano and play A-natural, C-natural, and E-natural all at the same time…hear the minor quality. Then raise the C-natural by a half step to a C-sharp but leave the A and E where they are (as naturals)…hear the major quality.

He totally missed my point and diverted the subject by claiming that there is no way there would be any confusion as to whether or not it was major or minor solely based on the type of “C” being played (many could argue the same regarding his real example of the WT’s misinterpretation of scripture that I was basing this example on) because there would also be F#’s and G#’s all over the piece …as if those two sharps (F# and G#) were definite proofit was MAJOR. What he didn’t consider, was that the A-melodic minor scale also has F#’s and G#’s (ascending), and only differs from the A-major scale by having a C-natural instead of a C#.

He continued with more and more misinformation on the subject from that point on.

19

djeggnog, YOU were a professional musician...answer THIS non-religious question.

by the pharmer in

jw
friends

don't worry, this should be an easy elementary question, especially for a former professional musician.

(those of you wondering why i ask, i wonder just how stubbornly he will hold on to his false statement -- one of many -- even though it is a relatively benign and non-religious topic.

how many intervals in a harmonic minor scale, djeggnog?

the pharmer

(And to think he took me on this long journey all because of the example I used in my post #41 -- which I really meant to have been a simple example.)